Oral History - URLICH Ivan; 21-40
Oral History - URLICH IvanAbout this object
URLICH Ivan : Tape 1 Side 1
Date: 21st November 2007
0:04 URLICH COTTAGE. Ivan’s mother, Kate URLIC ( also spelt URLICH) nee ZEGURA (also spelt SEGURA) came to NZ in the early 1920’s and married her first husband, Stipan ( also known as Steve) KNEZOVIC (also spelt KNEZOVICH) in 1926.
Steve owned 65 to 70 acres at 96 Moir Street, Mangawhai Village. Kate tells that the cottage was dragged by bullock team across the channel, by Insley Street Causeway, from Hogans farm on Black Swamp Road, to the Mangawahi Hotel wharf area. The cottage was pulled up Moir street to the land that was owned by Steve KNEZOVICH. It was sited not on the street frontage but inland before the land rises off Moir Street, opposite the Mangawhai Motor Camp, until it was shifted to the Pioneer Village, Molesworth Drive, Mangawhai Heads in April 2019.
2:00 Steve KNEZOVICH died 1932 / 33 leaving Kate a widow. Hard life, farming, time of Depression, Government Relief workers, NOBILO Family.
3:22 Kate KNEZOVICH nee ZEGURA married Jure (also known as George) URLIC (also spelt URLICH) in 1936. Children were Ivan and Stefanie, born 1938 (twins) and Mary born 1939. Stefanie died as a child.
3:30 URLICH George, followed WW2 on radio. He had all of his family in Croatia. Kate’s brother Peter was murdered by the Germans.
5:20 EDUCATION. Started school at 6 years with no English. Went to school Mangawhai Beach school which was on Molesworth Drive, Mangawhai Heads before it became the Anglican Church. The Church was shifted to the Pioneer Village, Molesworth Drive, 2016/17.
6:20 SCHOOLING. Corporal punishment for not speaking English correctly.
7:44 PREDJUDICE Against Dalmatians, and Roman Catholics.
9:14 POVERTY. Lower social and economic level for family.
10:00 SCHOOLING. Correspondence School for one year then to Wellsford High School for 2 years.
10:30 Left school after 3 years. 15 years. Went labouring for Raymond BULL at his farm on Black Swamp Road, Mangawhai.
11:12 Kate URLICH ill health. Type 2 Diabetes.
12:00 George URLICH died 1954, when Ivan was 15 years, while at Wellsford High School.
14:00 Kate URLICH. Life in Mangawhai. Ill health with diabetes. Ivan cared for her. She got gangrene in her leg. Went to hospital and died in 1976 after electing to have no treatment although amputation of affected limb was not offered to her.
19:00 DALMATIAN FAMILIES IN MANGAWHAI.
19:19 George URLICH was a District County labourer. Built and maintained local roads, culverts and bridges. A big man who was very strong. Worked by himself. He dropped dead while working. Mr “Hobby” GILES who worked as a boot repairer on the corner of Moir Street and Leslie street, Mangawhai Village, found him. 1954.
20:40 FISHING. Food for family. More conversation on topic at end of Tape 2 side 1. STEWARTS FLAT location.
23:30 CHURCH. RELIGION. Traditions. No local Roman Catholic Church.
25:27 DALMATIAN culture. Grapes, figs.
26:42 FAMILY MEMBERS. Kate's brother came to NZ before WW2. Refugee. Not a naturalised New Zealander so couldn’t go to war. Went back home (Croatia) 1954 and inherited the family land.
30:11 Kate URLICH impression of going back ‘home’ to Croatia. Importance of land ownership.
URLICH Ivan : Tape 1 Side 2
0:20 DALMATIAN FAMILIES OF MANGAWHAI.
6:15 RADICH, DEVICH, UNKOVICH
10:87 KINKELLA FAMILY. Bought original Bowmar store on Moir Street, Mangawhai Village, from Mr Katavich. Became a Boarding house. Mrs KINKELLA had clothing made of sacks. Getting water for house and personal use.
12:40 WELLS (water).
13:00 DALMATIAN PEOPLE arrived in NZ pre WW1 circa 1911. BARBARICH.
13:40 OCCUPATIONS noted as ‘gum stretchers’
15:49 DALMATIAN COMMUNITY relationships. They would sue each other frequently. Usually over gum digging rights.
16:44 Very parochial over the areas where they came from back “Home”. Lots of squabbling.
17:20 Assisted passage. Wife usually came later.
18:38 Local Dalmatian families with “wealth” - SIMICH FAMILY. Gum buyer and supplier.
19:40 John MABLELICH, Te Hana, had forge, limeworks, and farm. He sponsored Dalmatian immigrants who then worked for him.
20:25 Families strived to have own land. Everyone had grapes, olives and figs.
22:25 Gum digging finished around Mangawhai before Ivan was born 1938/ 39.
24:02 Mixing with the Community 1930/40’s. Not many marriages between Dalmatians and Europeans. Sister married in 1965.
25:58 George became a naturalised New Zealander before WW2.
26:50 BULLYING. Called ‘Dally bastard or Squarehead”. Indentity.
28:39 DALMATIAN HISTORY. No local leadership. You went to the Dalmatian Community in Federal Street, Auckland for a lawyer, doctor etc. Caused by language skills.
30:09 Inter-mingling with community rare except for the Maori community.
31:10 Wider DALMATIAN COMMUNITY.
URLICH Ivan: Tape 2 Side 1
0:08 Other Dalmatian families in community. TOMAS, UNKOVICH.
3:30 SOCIAL STANDING. Important to look successful. Sent money back ‘home’ to support family.
4:30 URLICH family home in Croatia 500years old. Stonemasons, dry stone work.
5:41 Reflection on DALMATIAN SETTLEMENT.
6:16 General talk about photographs Ivan had to show. Mrs KINKELLA nee FERRIE . 2 daughters, Milla (?) and Katy who went overseas.
Mr KINKELLA drowned at KINGFISHER POINT, 1921, when the boom on the boat swung around and hit him. KINGFISHER POINT was above Picnic Bay as you came from the mouth of the Bar or channel.
9:40 NITZ Family worked for Raymond BULL who farmed on Black Swamp Road, Mangawhai. Changed spelling of name because of WW2.
11:00 TENNIS COURTS. Insley Street courts opened 1955.
12:17 FISHING with father to feed the family. Dragging net on channel by Insley Street Causeway.
14:13 STEWARTS FLAT. FISHING.
15:00 ANCHOR AREA. FISHING. Net in boat. Schnaper, trevalli, herrings, shark (dogfish) some 6 foot long.
16:53 WOOD FAMILY. FISHING. MR GILES. MR ORBIST. Herrings to feed family after George’s death.
18:19 Playing in the estuary in WATTS boat.